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Post by Rtoo on Aug 11, 2016 5:52:16 GMT 10
I agree in that auto aim has its perks and cons. I still think Coder Veronica had it fairly balanced out as, you have a variety of enemies that countered the auto aim's advantages with fast movement or range. Bandersnatches had reach and could stunlock you, Hunters could move fast and leap at you, some bosses had ranged attacks as well. So while it was easier, in certain regards such as knowing where enemies are coming from and stuff, the BOWs hand plenty of tricks up there sleeves. Also zombies made more than enough moans and noises so you could walk in a room and hear them shuffle to you anyways without aiming your gun. I walked into many zombies and got munched on in RE:CV. I think RE:Remake had more zombies that would chill and stare into space, than the later games. There were also crowds of enemies where they'd fly and inflict poison so even with auto aim you were a sitting duck in a crowded room. Basically no mechanic in any game is 100% perfect because it comes down to the developer's time of testing and the player's own knowledge to master the mechanic's effectiveness as well. We're definately at odds here:P. I find Code Veronica the worst of mainline fixed camera RE games and for many reasons that you actually mentioned. Bandersnatch's reach for example- it allows it to attack you offscreen, in fact during the very intoduction to this monster in the 4:3 realeases you couldn't even see it after the cutscene because it was beyonfd the edge of the screen. That combined with the fact that they were silent until they engaged you allowed them to score cheap shots at your expense. They are placed in such a way that I find it imposible to avoid damage from them unless you know beforehand that the next room is going to contain a bandersnatch and prepare accordingly. And that's just poor game design to me. The same goes for other ranged enemies- any situation where you cannot see a moster attacking you (unless it uses some kind of camoflage of course) when it's right in front of your character is just bad. And you running into zombies, I reckon due to them being right beyond the edge of the screen, is just another example of this. In regards of the poison enemies if we have in mind the same location (that is the t-shaped corridor with a staircase in the antarctic base filled with moths). Thats probably the most bullshit room in the entire game- as you enter it walking down the stairs the camera is located in such a way that it's hard to tell where the moths are in relation to your character- which makes defending yourself agianst them that much harder. But if these things don't bother you and you like the game than all the better. To me this game along with RE3 is a prime example why the series needed a change of somesort to stay relevant.
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sed.akoson@gmail.com
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Post by seda on Aug 11, 2016 12:34:18 GMT 10
with having a 3rd person view there is a possibility to do what ever you want to doso i think the game really need few new cameras if they just add a adjustable over shoulder camera so it make the game more popular and also with that kind of view, adding a fps camera is very easy to do too (for fps fans) of course they are able to add static cameras (view) for classic fans easily and my idea about tank control: they should make the game like reality in reality people are capable to run and shot (even the tanks   ) that kind of control was acceptable for me in 1998 with ps1 specs but now... if they make it real, those who loves tank control, are simply able to play that way, just by staying and shooting (just don't move!  ) but it's not possible to play the game like a real person if they force you to being like a world war 2's tank!! and you can't do anything about that without having the engine and a mocap system! also it's good to have lot of different customizable weapons with real options like: laser sight - silencer - night view and other kind of cameras - power range editing - different kind of bullets and ... and for horror mode baseball bat - crow bar or maybe using things like chairs! and ... and about outfits: i love to see different influence by different costumes less weight for running better heavy metallic for more protection and defense or maybe a full metal for walking very politely and say hello to zombies and maybe trying to cure them! adding a partner is easy and can be good too, but just as an selectable option and not forcing players to use it maybe gamers prefer to play the game lonely and alone but in a game like re5 you are forced to play it that way and you can't do anything about that , and in my opinion: forcing people to do what ever you think is good , it's not good
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Words Can Kill
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Post by Abyss Reaper on Aug 11, 2016 16:52:07 GMT 10
On my opinion, the real problem of the remake is things that we see in spin-offs, Mods and Maps(In other games) of Re2..
I really hope that Capcom find a new formula for Re2,as both the old for fan and is not as something already seen in the things that I mentioned before
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Sleeping
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Post by SAMI on Aug 12, 2016 0:59:25 GMT 10
3rd Person mode can be scary too if Zombies are in unexpected place like behind the doors. Also if a zombie stalks you but you don't know and then suddenly you can see it behind your player- it will be like wtf!
But yeah, right now the game can have both fixed and 3rd person camera [which would make 1st person camera possible too as stated by seda]. That would please both old and new fans.
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Post by Rtoo on Aug 12, 2016 1:57:44 GMT 10
I don't think it's possible to have a tpp and static angles camera without having two types of combat mechanics. Static angles combat would be too simlpistic for tpp and freeaim too overbearing for static angles. Probably you would also need two sets of enemy ai too.
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Sleeping
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Post by SAMI on Aug 12, 2016 4:12:42 GMT 10
I don't think it's possible to have a tpp and static angles camera without having two types of combat mechanics. Static angles combat would be too simlpistic for tpp and freeaim too overbearing for static angles. Probably you would also need two sets of enemy ai too. Agreed. But since they're taking time to release this game, I hope they make two sets of AI for 2 cameras. It would be cool if the zombies are at different position and attack from different places when we start a new game again. Thus there will be variations and confusions. For example: you got killed by a licker. Next time you start from checkpoint- you won't find that lucker in the same place. But it will suddenly attack at different place.
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Simps for Lepotitsa
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Post by Akeinu on Aug 12, 2016 5:10:49 GMT 10
I don't think it's possible to have a tpp and static angles camera without having two types of combat mechanics. Static angles combat would be too simlpistic for tpp and freeaim too overbearing for static angles. Probably you would also need two sets of enemy ai too. Not only two AI`s, they would need two different environments. For examle RE6 gameplays would not work well in small environments like RE2, and the static Camera and gameplay would not work well in huge Areas like RE6. Capcom want to make a high quality product so they will focus on one gameplay style, what ever that will be.
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Post by Rtoo on Aug 12, 2016 5:58:30 GMT 10
Not only two AI`s, they would need two different environments. For examle RE6 gameplays would not work well in small environments like RE2, and the static Camera and gameplay would not work well in huge Areas like RE6. Capcom want to make a high quality product so they will focus on one gameplay style, what ever that will be. I know you used that as an example but RE6 gameplay should stay the hell away from this game. Other than that as long as the focus is mainly on firearms (about 99% of the time) there shouldn't be all that many tweaks required for it to work with these enviromoents and enemy quantity. But you're right that they should focus on one thing and stick with it. The last time they tried to appeal to everyone we got RE6 and the less said about that the better (still better than revelations 2 though).
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sed.akoson@gmail.com
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Post by seda on Aug 12, 2016 12:08:43 GMT 10
all of you are right i think in original places (re2 locations) we can have 3rd , classic and fps without a need to having another A.I because all of stages were based on less side moving (i guess cause of ps1 memory limitations) even at the raccoon city in re3 just if they going to make it a little real! and if they going to give us an alternative way for passing through the raccoon city... maybe that need a new A.I and gameplay but i personally rather to victimizing classic view instead of ignoring the raccoon city ( if they are toooo lazy to make it and they force me to choose just one of them) my mean is having raccoon city with an over shoulder camera inside the game is very very better than just a classic static camera and sticking between all those Tight and narrow halls, walls, rooms, and all of those small locations which we passed those already more than hundred time! i love to see raccoon city (something like re2 the movie) searching and seeking for stuff in stores, cars, streets .... and i wish they don't missed up the motion capture this time ( in re-rev2 claire classic movement was like a horse riding!  )
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Majini Killer
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Post by Fullbuster23 on Aug 12, 2016 22:53:30 GMT 10
They need to redo all of those things for next gen even the scenario may be more open now, take FF7 Remake as an example, it never was THAT open in Midgar, PS4 and XOne makes devs wants to work on open world games cause they allow it to be more easy nowadays, so I would love to see that specially in RE3, just imagine it, a open world Raccoon City scenario.  
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Post by mechanicalpaladin on Aug 12, 2016 23:23:32 GMT 10
Considering that you ask me to find you a game with those mechanics I guess that you haven't experienced them yourself. So you're more asuming that this is bad game design rather than stating it. Exactly. There aren't games like that because it already looks bad on paper. In order to make combat style like that to work, you would need to add some serious aim assist to the game to keep it fun rather than frustrating. I'd like you to find me a recent high profile/popular game with static camaras and firearms as the main means of combat that isn't a rerelease or remaster if you think that those mechanics hold up so well, because I think they didn't went away without a reason. Most recent popular game that I can think of that uses static camera angles is Until Dawn. I haven't played it myself (don't own a PS4) but critics and players seem to enjoy it. www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/until-dawnWhy aren't re-releases/remasters allowed? If a game got re-released and critics still give it a good reviews, that means the game still holds up today. Resident Evil HD Remaster is well received by both gamers and critics. I acutally followed your advice and played a bit of RE4 without the lasersight and to the surprise of absolutely no one it playes exactly as I expeced it would- it doesn't require a lot of imagination to figure out how much impact it would have on combat and resource management during even the most basic of encounters. Yeah. Now that you've played the game, can you honestly tell anyone that it was fun that way? Zombies ain't the only enemy type in RE games. There are other slow and fast moving enemies too. If all the enemies were slow then your proposed style of combat could work but it would remain frustrating.
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Post by Rtoo on Aug 13, 2016 4:24:06 GMT 10
Considering that you ask me to find you a game with those mechanics I guess that you haven't experienced them yourself. So you're more asuming that this is bad game design rather than stating it. Exactly. There aren't games like that because it already looks bad on paper. In order to make combat style like that to work, you would need to add some serious aim assist to the game to keep it fun rather than frustrating. I'd like you to find me a recent high profile/popular game with static camaras and firearms as the main means of combat that isn't a rerelease or remaster if you think that those mechanics hold up so well, because I think they didn't went away without a reason. Most recent popular game that I can think of that uses static camera angles is Until Dawn. I haven't played it myself (don't own a PS4) but critics and players seem to enjoy it. www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/until-dawnWhy aren't re-releases/remasters allowed? If a game got re-released and critics still give it a good reviews, that means the game still holds up today. Resident Evil HD Remaster is well received by both gamers and critics. I acutally followed your advice and played a bit of RE4 without the lasersight and to the surprise of absolutely no one it playes exactly as I expeced it would- it doesn't require a lot of imagination to figure out how much impact it would have on combat and resource management during even the most basic of encounters. Yeah. Now that you've played the game, can you honestly tell anyone that it was fun that way? Zombies ain't the only enemy type in RE games. There are other slow and fast moving enemies too. If all the enemies were slow then your proposed style of combat could work but it would remain frustrating. You know, when writing my request I was extra careful with words, to avoid a situation such as this. So even though, in the very same sentence, I specified that I have in mind a game with firearm focused combat, you went and ignored it, instead using a game which is basically a AAA Teltale game as an example. I'm very well aware that this presentation works pretty well for narrative, exploratin games, hell, even character action games with focus on malee like pre- Ninja Theory DMC games where you can use wide angles to show most of the battle arena. So unless we start counting games like The Walking Dead and similar as RE-like games excuse me if I call bullshit on this. The reason I exlcuded rereleases and remasters partialy because I was pretty sure, that due to lack of options you were going to mention Resident Evil, and you didn't dissapoint in that regard. The other reason, well, Resident Evil Remake, really? That game is over 10 years old and you count that as a recent release? Why don't you throw the original Alone in the Dark games into the mix as well, because they made them available on GOG or something. The exclusivity deal with Nintendo expired and Capcom released it because they knew it would sell like hot cakes, not to shake up the industry or some other nonsense. And since this classic RE resurgance didn't exaclty spawned a legion of copycats (as you failed to prove), I think the industry (AAA or indie) is pretty ok with it being a thing of the past. I tried to be honest with you- I didn't know any games like the one I've been describing mainly due to it being my idea, and wasn't trying to spin this around with some crap. When I asked you basically the same request (you even qouted it in it's entirety) you came up with an answer that has me wonder wether you stopped reading said request halfway through or disregarded parts of it because it was convenient. I've never played Deep Down, seen maybe 10 minutes of it after which I knew exactly what type of game it is. Confirming that this game has no combat in any regular sense before writing this post took me about a minute. I don't know, man, but I get the feeling you're not being serious here. Anyway, I don't know if you played RE2 or not but you could outrun almost all of the monsters there (I will be using RE2 as template here, since, well, that's the name of the game) and all, but one, are malee (Ivy's range is still like 3-5 meters, so it's still within effective range of my proposed method), unless you count the very last monster in the B scenario as ranged, but it's still the size of a bus so, you would have to be blind to miss it. The dogs were pretty fast in that game but I never fight them and most of the time come out without a scratch, so I guess that means something too. Lickers were slow even in RE5 and by the time you fight the first one everyone who doesn't do a costume run already has a shotgun so they're well prepared. Others just run past it. And if you can't direct a weapon with a hit zone large as this in the general direction of the enemy you really need some kind of assist. By the way, there's this game- Cold Fear- it uses pretty much the same perspective when aiming as RE4, sans the jerkyness. Most weapons have a lasersight. The shotgun however does not. And believe it or not I didn't find it useless or "not fun" to use without it. Just fo shits and gigles I played RE4 agian and decided to fight Sadler. The result: I killed him two times (out of two attempts). The second time I used maybe ten shots from the Riot Gun (all weapons maxed out) and two full clips (24 shots) from the Broken Butterfly. No grenades, no explosive barels, and no rocket launchers (regular or Adas) used. I used the contextual malee after hitting his leg eyeballs. I healed myself twice. These's still room for improvement. And if you don't find shooting the eyeball in his mouth while he's up and about satysfying than clearly this gameplay isn't for you. All in all you clearly aren't even considering how this style would make the game more tense and challenging, which is very fitting for this title. I'm not going to convince anyone whether it's fun or not- tastes are subjective and if no one is openminded enough to at least go and try it for themselves it's a waste of time anyway. To explain this would require me repeating myself and I get the feeling that I already did that. So well just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. Peace.
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Post by Frostwolf on Aug 13, 2016 5:16:39 GMT 10
I agree with mechanicalpaladin , the game itself should be balanced in its say (not impossible and also not too easy).
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Post by mechanicalpaladin on Aug 13, 2016 5:18:20 GMT 10
Could be that I've interpreted what you've said wrong. English is not my primary language but my replies don't seem wrong to my eyes.
We both want different things. I want the game to stay true to the original and you want it to be more modern.
It's been fun to discuss about these points but it doesn't seem that nether of us will budge toward one way or the other.
We'll just have to wait and see what Ca$hcom has in store for us.
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sed.akoson@gmail.com
Posts: 651
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Post by seda on Aug 13, 2016 13:33:57 GMT 10
dear Rtoo woooow man you are really a good and professional critic i always love to read your posts because Your comments are very accurate although my english is not good so sometimes i don't understand some words please accept my apologies and yes you are right about poison enemy , dogs , lickers and... i am truly saying you are a good critic ( at least about video games ) I am glad that you are here dear mechanicalpaladin i love your posts too man so pleeeeaaase don't give up and don't think it's just a wasting times i begging you because we are here to preventing of another bad remake and " Ca$hcom" should listen to our words and our wishes all of good companies care about their costumers and of course that is the most logical manner
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О я где то уже это видел....