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Post by bllizard on Feb 3, 2015 8:05:09 GMT 10
Well good luck with that then.... To you as well....
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Post by Forgotten_Soldier on Feb 3, 2015 8:27:24 GMT 10
Not possible. These are pre-rendered backgrounds dude not 3D like RE4 lol.
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Post by VirusPunk on Feb 3, 2015 9:02:00 GMT 10
This topic makes no sense. First, REmake HD uses pre-rendered backgrounds for most of the scenes while a few are in real-time 3D (including a few of the assets, foliage, etc). I looked at this RE4HD mod and in all honesty it doesn't look very good in comparison to REmake. REmake's backgrounds were already re-rendered and altogether remade in HD and look fantastic as it is. Even if you managed to import the 3D scenes from Umbrella Chronicles, RE4 etc into a 3D application and render them, they wouldn't look at all good rendered as they are low poly assets and designed for real time engines and consist of lower resolution textures. 3D for games is a hell of a lot different than 3D for rendering, take it from me as I work in this field. Even when all said is done you have to consider the following:
The classic Resident Evil room files (even REmake) are made up with these elements: Cameras Camera switch zones Hidden boundary/collision geometry Floor data Doors Lights 2D Masks Effects (the wall sconce fire or candle fire for example)
We have barely tackled editing these elements in the classic RE games recently, and from the looks of it regarding REmake HD, we are still far behind in this aspect.
As far as trying to convert the whole game to real-time 3D, that wouldn't work either. I suppose you can use one of the real-time 3D rooms as a template, but you would still need to edit the cameras and everything else listed above to match up with the rooms you're trying to recreate and still go through the trouble of recreating the assets all in real-time. A little too ambitious much? There is alot involved in making a 3D asset that looks high quality. It isn't something easily done and certainly won't be easy for people who only know how to rip existing models from other games.
I think DXP made a good point. This isn't a real time game engine like Unreal where you can easily import 3D assets and build a game/mod off of. And while 54,000 polys isn't alot for a single room by todays standards (some Unreal game levels are in the millions), it would add up if every room were that much. Also consider that the playable poly count of characters is about 20,000 polys, then include enemies and whatever else is in the room.
And this is my opinion, but part of what killed the RE series for me is when they decided to go full 3D. The fact REmake HD uses pre-rendered backgrounds for 90% of the rooms still provides a nostalgic experience.
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Post by bllizard on Feb 3, 2015 10:33:51 GMT 10
Re hd remaster has a couple 3d rooms as it is, which are created in set pieces. It also runs the mt framework engine as well, which can handle 6-700k environments.
Originally this remaster was using 3d environments, which is the reason for the different game engine. If you saw mikami's vidoc they talk about prototyping in full 3d. They scrapped it because of the clipping issues with the camera angles.
Sticking to the topic of this thread created which I support. the main issue I see is how the game loads the set pieces and if the sets can be repackaged with altered content or fresh content. That's the basics. Recreation, level extending, scripting those are branching ideas after.
Changing cameras effects game mechanics, in the original remake the moment you would enable free cam mode through emulation, characters would either float from their positions or run into dark space. Characters In cut scenes would also float into dark space as their animations played.
In order to pull off a 3d recreation the level layouts have to be exact. Which is also why I agree with umbrella chronicles assets.
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Post by VirusPunk on Feb 3, 2015 11:43:27 GMT 10
Weird, as in RE1, 2, & 3 we are able to edit RDT files changing the cameras and everything else and there is no issues with the game mechanics. It sounds to me like you guys just haven't fully understood how focal points (FOV) in 3D cameras work if you're experiencing those problems. Mortician over on the RE123 modding boards wrote a plugin that allows you to export REmake HD cameras into Blender for editing in the same way that we edit the older RE games.
Just because something was put into place pre-development stages doesn't mean that feature could be implemented now. As I said I acknowledged that there are a few 3D rooms and several 3D assets. How do you know the layout from UC's environments are exact to REmake's? They could be in an entirely different scale and would require a ton of work to match them up to REmake's scale (scaling and resetting xforms for every single 3D asset piece, in the most extreme case).
How big are REmake's 3D room textures BTW? Are they 1024, 2048, 4096, etc? If UC's textures are any lower than what is common for REmake, it will look like an ugly pixelated mess.
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Post by bllizard on Feb 3, 2015 13:55:11 GMT 10
For me It wasn't the lack of understanding how the pov works, the original remake just wasn't ment to have a free camera mode, not with it's backdrops. Now on the other hand, if someone made a plugin to overwrite code and edited some things that would obviously be different. The new remaster opperates a 3d compliant engine, since this game hasn't been tested, I wouldn't know of the repercussions changing this aspect.
There were some backdrops that were extracted from the remaster, I haven't downloaded them yet. I'm not sure if whether the game implemented all of the 2d backdrops in 3d, methinks they most likely did.
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Post by knots on Feb 3, 2015 14:10:58 GMT 10
The year that capcom's team took to make the estate will end up being undertaken. If you're a capable enough artist to recreate just 5 rooms of the mansion, that would be insane and immensely appreciated. Though It's better to take what capcom already did, at least you'll be able to polish it or add more geometry, and then release testing much sooner. I wasn't saying it'd be easy to recreate the mansion in 3D, I'm saying that if someone was going to invest that much time into it I don't see the point in using Umbrella Chronicles as a base when they'd have to add a substantial amount to those models anyway. If it were me doing it, I'd rather everything was of a consistent from-scratch quality. No it doesn't. Render wise.....think its something like... 1000+? Only going off older games but that is roughly the amount of angles for all rooms. That's actually not that bad if you think of it like "1000+ textures". It would be tedious as hell but crazier things have been accomplished by single people on other games. The hardest part about doing it "per texture" instead of remaking the game in 3D would be making sure everything stayed consistent across angles.
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First, I was known as Sectus. And then, well, I ended up here.
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Post by FluffyQuack on Feb 3, 2015 15:00:07 GMT 10
No it doesn't. Render wise.....think its something like... 1000+? Only going off older games but that is roughly the amount of angles for all rooms. That's actually not that bad if you think of it like "1000+ textures". It would be tedious as hell but crazier things have been accomplished by single people on other games. The hardest part about doing it "per texture" instead of remaking the game in 3D would be making sure everything stayed consistent across angles. There are exactly 2500 background textures in REmaster (not counting the few rooms which are fully real-time rendered).
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Post by EvilLord on Feb 3, 2015 15:09:11 GMT 10
this tread have turned into a Angry Joe fest xD
can you all calm down we don't even know if its possible to import any kind of 3d stage files yet so PLEASE CALM THE FUCK DOWN XD
Thank you :3
ALSO
Umbrella chronicles have almost 100 Remake stages In the Remake scenario so I haven't checked how many of those stages are recreated but i know they are A LOT of them
also mapping those fuckers will take forever since there is like 25 textures for one stage XD
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Post by bllizard on Feb 3, 2015 18:22:52 GMT 10
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Post by dxp on Feb 3, 2015 19:00:20 GMT 10
If people really want to re-model all the rooms....which I don't see why they would when pre-rendering is much easier to do then whatever. Using the UC version really shouldn't be advised (low poly build and low res as ass textures) rather a total rebuild using the real data from the RDT(old term for room data in the older games) should be used. UC doesn't have every room so in the end people are going to have to remodel those. Yeah the 2D backdrops are flat for a reason....that's how the engine works it uses the render on an invisible plane, a camera takes that plane into consideration and uses it along with the boundaries and FOV + other data to create a room using pre-renders. RE1,2,3 Remake and zero all use the same engine style and were all built that way due to limitations at the time. Over the years though its become a part of what made the original games a classic, which is why I have been vocal about it, its nice yeah having the ability to rebuild it all in 3D that's great...but to old schoolers who have played and loved and followed the old games we don't see why people can't just create re-renders involving rebuilding entire rooms that may not even allow the engine to run at all (imagine trying to shove something over a million polygons in there and see what would happen then.) Glad to see another set of old schoolers on here too VirusPunk and Hunk?/pyramid head.
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Post by bllizard on Feb 3, 2015 19:53:16 GMT 10
Well i definitely agree with the benefits of having artists take full control. My PC can handle the 5,000k backdrops. I'm not so sure though if many artists would choose this way to implement such fidelity, and not use something like UE4 instead for this very idea. As an artist myself i would say that UE4 is far more advanced, friendly to use and needs no such hacking to show off such creations. What would take you months to pull off implementing this way could take you In a matter of days in UE4.
Re Remaster is more less the perfect candidate to play the game, not really to recreate it. None the less if some are still ambitious to go through the fazes of trying to get this to work, I would definitely love to see it. Or make some assets for it, once importing and repackaging is possible.
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Ada... Ada Wong :D
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Post by EvilLord on Feb 3, 2015 22:09:20 GMT 10
IF and i mean IF WE EVER get the chance to import any stages in We are definitely not REMAKING THEM OURSELVES we will use as much as possible from the Umbrella chronicles and if we stumble upon something else we would use that IF NOT well let it be stupidly low res background image but resized (which to me is stupid since half of the game was redone in UC and capcom could of simply used that instead of whining they cant make the game in full 3d)
SO in the end We see that CAPCOM Once again is proven to be LAZY ASS BIMBOS WHO DOESNT GIVE A FUCK WHAT THEY DO TO THEIR GAMES now please if you excuse me i have a game to play :3
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Post by 80t on Feb 3, 2015 22:59:08 GMT 10
Oh... Just take a look at that... My head explodes! What you see and what you get lol... Anyways... 2D BG's or 3D really doesn't makes any difference for me... other than performance wise, I don't really care... Whichever is more efficient that goes for me. The sole gripe I have with this game's graphics... It's not graphical fidelity, like HQ BG's... or rooms being 3D or 2D... The problem for me it's those stupid glitchy shadows... Why have a new lighting engine and all that, when you "clip shadows through walls"... What's the point of even having those shadows... ? There were perfectly fine shadows in GC/Wii without the new lighting engine... those were enough... at least there were decent "functional" shadows... Not perfect but still...
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Post by CodeMan02Fr on Feb 3, 2015 23:49:26 GMT 10
if someone manage to render a mesh in the mansion hall or dinning room i can send him/her the re5 gold edition manor level exported as obj so rebuilding the mansion in max will be more a lego work than rebuilding all geometry and textures...
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