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Post by shylokvakarian on Dec 6, 2016 9:17:35 GMT 10
Okay, so I wrote a weapon buyers' guide for the PC version over on Steam (If you want to check it out and rail on me for dissing the Blacktail for being the boring-ass handgun that it is, the guide is called "The Definitive Weapons Guide"), but one of my commenters asked me about the Shotgun's exclusive upgrade, and what the hell that even meant.
I honestly have no clue. So I come here, asking "How in the hell do shotguns even work in this game?"
I would assume that the shotguns are using hitscan, like most weapons, but I really want to know:
How many rays are used for each shotgun? Does the number of rays go up as the firepower is upgraded, or does it stay the same?
How is the spread chosen or defined? Is there a set spread, like turning off random shotgun spread in TF2, or does it randomize some? I'm fully aware that at least one ray goes straight down the laser sight, but I have no idea what the other rays are doing.
How is the firepower calculated? Does each ray get the firepower of the gun, or do they each get a fraction of the firepower of the gun?
How does the shotgun get weaker at longer ranges? Is there scaling of firepower due to distance, or is it just due to the way the rays radiate in a cone shape?
Is the ray-based hitscan interpretation completely wrong, and the game instead uses a cone and determines damage as a function involving the percentage of the cross-section of the cone at the distance the target is at that overlaps the target in question?
And finally, how does the Shotgun's exclusive (and for good measure, the Striker's "wide-shot" capabilities) change any of this?
Would be really grateful if someone could shed some light on this subject, as this could mean life or death for the Shotgun itself, outside of standard No Merchant runthroughs. Not that the Shotgun is used much at all, because the Striker is fucking awesome, but you know.
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Post by verdugo7 on Dec 6, 2016 10:38:44 GMT 10
Sorry but I don't understand what you actually meant  AFAIK the shotgun's exclusive upgrade made its damage stay same at all distance... Basically, it's a crowd control weapon,made to shoot groups of enemies at once (thus knocking them down,not killing them) Interestingly,even when not fully upgraded,I found it easy to kill enemies with the shotgun.Just aim the laser sight on their forehead,and shoot. (idk why but,if you shoot them directly at the forehead you'll have 80-90% of insta-kill) But the drawback of the shotgun is, the damage goes lower when you shoot it from a certain/longer distance... like you said,i think it's just due to the way the rays radiate in a cone shape. (the longer you shoot,the wider the cone,right?) But in the exclusive upgrade,imo the wide of the spread stays still,but the "damage" per rays/per pellet is significantly increased , (makes sense since they could be knocked down when you shoot them from a distance,with the exclusive upgrade of course.Without it maybe they'll just standing still like nothing happened) Then the Riot Gun,it has the shotgun's exclusive upgrade since from the start + slightly tighter spread. So you'll have a slightly better chance to knock down enemies from a distance by using the Riot Gun than the shotgun.. And about the striker, IDK but I think it is easier to use because it has the highest damage output than the other two shotguns,plus it's wide spread (i don't think wide spread counts as a "capability" but well) is pretty much an advantage since it has high damage,so that's it IMO.If it has a wide spread but low damage,it's a crappy gun then. But I like to use the Riot Gun and the Shotgun sometimes, as it could blast heads from 5-6 meters away...(with the exclusive upgrade ofc) And sorry if it doesn't meet your requirements ... Not an expert in technical questions lol
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Post by shylokvakarian on Dec 6, 2016 11:36:13 GMT 10
I guess my question was how shotguns in general deal out the damage, and how the exclusive of the Remington ("Shotgun") changes it. Essentially, I've been thinking about it in one of two ways:
1. The pellets are each a fraction of the firepower, and the exclusive makes it so getting hit with at least one pellet instead delivers the full firepower.
2. The pellets are each a fraction of the firepower, the further a pellet has to travel, the less power it has, and the exclusive makes each pellet remain at their maximum firepower.
So, here's the big question: Can you essentially snipe with the exclusive-maxed Remington?
Also, does anyone know how many pellets each shotgun fires, and in what pattern? Is the shot pattern set, or randomized?
And does the Riot gun really have the same "long-range" capability that the exclusive-maxed Remington has? If that's the case, then fuck the Remington.
Okay, at WHAT point does the Riot Gun get the long-range capabilities? Does that come with the exclusive? Was that on the gun the whole time because PC aiming is different, and thus faster aim movement is useless? Because this blows the Remington out of the water.
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I don't share links of my mods anymore. Thanks.
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Post by verdugo7 on Dec 8, 2016 15:18:05 GMT 10
The riot gun has the remington's exclusive upgrade from the start (not really,but i think it is because its tighter spread compared to the remington plus it has slightly higher damage..) That's why it is easier to knock down enemies from afar by using the riot gun than the remington. (Give it a try,buy both but dont upgrade them. Shoot enemies from afar then see the effect. If you want to see the gun's spread, shoot some water )
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Post by shylokvakarian on Dec 10, 2016 6:16:19 GMT 10
*Tries the water thing*
Yeah, I'm not seeing any difference at 25 feet between the Remington and the Riot Gun. Definitely no tighter spread.
I'm gonna do some testing.
EDIT: On another note, I've noticed that the RG mentions being effective at long distances, even in stock form.
EDIT 2: Initial test, both guns at 5.0 firepower: RG: Four direct headshots. Rem: ...Two...shoulder shots...from a longer distance...
...Huh?
EDIT 3: El Gigante foot shot testing reveals rather weird data. The Remington at 8 firepower, the Riot Gun at 8 firepower, and the Remington with exclusive all show identical data. About 5 shots to fell him, and 3 shots to the plaga to kill him, broken up into three single shots due to the plaga retracting after a single shot, for a total of 18 shells expended. Of course, the exclusive Riot Gun takes only 10 shots exactly, 4 for each of two fellings, and two single shots to kill the plaga, but it's worth noting that the non-exclusive Remington managed to get the same results from foot shots as the exclusive one.
And now that I think about it, all the data leads to nice round numbers of 40 and 20.
I'm gonna do some more testing, this time with handguns.
EDIT 4: Silver Ghost, firepower 2. About 17 shots to fell, with one instance of 13, and a total of 9 shots to the plaga.
Chalk up to crits, even though I didn't headshot?
Well, regardless, this all seems to point in a direction that the firepower of the gun is the firepower of each pellet, rather than the firepower that each pellet adds up to.
Well, shit, I'm just right back to where I started now, except that now I think that the Remington is underpowered as fuck.
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I don't share links of my mods anymore. Thanks.
Posts: 1,467
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Post by verdugo7 on Dec 10, 2016 22:51:34 GMT 10
The RG DOES has a tighter spread.
Example: when a group of foes (5 bad guys) comes in front of you then if you shoot it with the remington,maybe 3 of them will fall down and 2 of them will stagger.
If you shoot them with the RG, 2 of them will fall and 3 of them will stand still.
If you shoot them with the striker, all of them will fall down.
That's the simple analogy I gained after playing the game since it was released in the ps2,until now.
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Post by shylokvakarian on Dec 12, 2016 4:56:13 GMT 10
Like I said, I see no difference in the tightness of the spread. Of course, the RG is more powerful, so that would likely account for the increase in number of ganados that are knocked over.
If you've got any buddies that decompile the code and look at it, I'd like to hear from them.
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