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Post by dxp on Feb 1, 2015 20:56:27 GMT 10
The thing is those shouldn't even be in the game at all....if anything it should only be about 300-600 polys worth of collision data....not 53,000+ polys of the entire room. And in honesty I don't think it could be done...since how would the game load all the textures from a 3d mesh when the game is designed to run with pre-rendered angles? I don't think it can be done but I will wait and see... 1. 54K+ poly is not very much of a deal with nowadays hardware... (plus, 54K+ poly that's a real 3D redone room, not collision data) Not to mention that culling helps cutting that number way down at runtime depending on camera angle. 2. There are already rooms redone by CAPCOM in 3D... now... in the game... I can't imagine why the other remaining rooms couldn't be converted... Other than too much work is needed to be done... 3. What does "load all textures from a 3D mesh" has to do with the game being "designed to run with pre-rendered angles"... ? It's irrelevant... Point in case, the game already features "officially converted 3D rooms" 1. 54k + is still too much for an engine like this...its wasting resources it never needs nor does it....especially since that poly count can be cut down a lot. 2. As you said its time and hard work. 3. So you tell me how it loads those textures in the room, because you propose to UV map the 3D data and convert that into a room using only 3D...which would then require textures and the UV map to go with all of them...now how would the engine know A) which images to load and B) which UV maps to load when its not designed for it? Its an engine pure and simple built for pre-rendered environments that way its not hogging all the resources that this remaster is currently doing. Its not Unreal or any other engine you can't just shove something in and hope it will load it all. Since the 3D data that is present is only for shadow mapping and has no UV of its own...how would it accept one? You would have to what re-write the entire engine correct?
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Post by 80t on Feb 1, 2015 21:34:55 GMT 10
1. 54k + is still too much for an engine like this...its wasting resources it never needs nor does it....especially since that poly count can be cut down a lot. 2. As you said its time and hard work. 3. So you tell me how it loads those textures in the room, because you propose to UV map the 3D data and convert that into a room using only 3D...which would then require textures and the UV map to go with all of them...now how would the engine know A) which images to load and B) which UV maps to load when its not designed for it? Its an engine pure and simple built for pre-rendered environments that way its not hogging all the resources that this remaster is currently doing. Its not Unreal or any other engine you can't just shove something in and hope it will load it all. Since the 3D data that is present is only for shadow mapping and has no UV of its own...how would it accept one? You would have to what re-write the entire engine correct? 1. Again... 54K+ poly = That's the poly count of an actual 3D room not a 2D room... a 3D room remade by CAPCOM. We don't know how many poly's are in a 3d collision data "model" 3. You really don't know much of what you're talking about... ? Just answer yourself this question: How can CAPCOM put actual 3D rooms in this game... (the 54k+ poly ones... ) How do 3D models like Characters/enemies etc are present "in your screen" regardless of the room/s being 2D or 3D ? The engine isn't "hardcoded" to load xxx room "in 2D" and room XYZ "in 3D"... It just load XXX/XYZ room in whichever format that room is... All the "pointers" are in the room files themselves... Pointers to 3D data, collision data, textures, animations, etc...
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Post by dxp on Feb 1, 2015 22:16:29 GMT 10
1. 54k + is still too much for an engine like this...its wasting resources it never needs nor does it....especially since that poly count can be cut down a lot. 2. As you said its time and hard work. 3. So you tell me how it loads those textures in the room, because you propose to UV map the 3D data and convert that into a room using only 3D...which would then require textures and the UV map to go with all of them...now how would the engine know A) which images to load and B) which UV maps to load when its not designed for it? Its an engine pure and simple built for pre-rendered environments that way its not hogging all the resources that this remaster is currently doing. Its not Unreal or any other engine you can't just shove something in and hope it will load it all. Since the 3D data that is present is only for shadow mapping and has no UV of its own...how would it accept one? You would have to what re-write the entire engine correct? 1. Again... 54K+ poly = That's the poly count of an actual 3D room not a 2D room... a 3D room remade by CAPCOM. We don't know how many poly's are in a 3d collision data "model" 3. You really don't know much of what you're talking about... ? Just answer yourself this question: How can CAPCOM put actual 3D rooms in this game... (the 54k+ poly ones... ) How do 3D models like Characters/enemies etc are present "in your screen" regardless of the room/s being 2D or 3D ? The engine isn't "hardcoded" to load xxx room "in 2D" and room XYZ "in 3D"... It just load XXX/XYZ room in whichever format that room is... All the "pointers" are in the room files themselves... Pointers to 3D data, collision data, textures, animations, etc... 1. No its not the real collision data for one thing.... as for how many are in the actual collision not a lot and it sure as hell wouldn't hit 54k+ 3. The how is simple...its all decided on what is in the room via scripting. As for the collision data its again done by scripting for that particular room Here is a lovely example of a room(lets see if you can even tell me what it is) Now this is an entire room with its collision data, cam triggers, lit,blk and various other bits of data...does it exceed 54k? You may also notice none of these boundaries are uv mapped at all. And the main reason why? Because the engine doesn't give a shit if its uv mapped or not, or even if it has a texture because all the engine gives a shit about (from the room data) is; how many boundaries it has, what the ID type is, its x, y and z positions, the height and width and its N_floor value. So lets go back to this idea that you can use a 3d mesh in the engine. Its designed for shadow mapping that much has been confirmed, it has no UV map and as we can guess its used for making the effects shadow wise in game. So lets review what I have told you as fact....this is a mesh with its only intention is to create shadows now with that in mind I ask again....how will the engine that does not show boundaries of even this mesh in game know what UV map you have used, what textures have been used etc? Remember it doesn't give a shit about the 54k mesh it doesn't display it in game and even with finding a way of removing those renders it won't still show up because it was, and will be for that engine always invisible, that is how the engine was designed have invisible boundaries but shove a render on top so you walk around them. Now yeah you could add the mesh in as a AOT 3D object similar to the handgun clips, 3d items etc, but then it has another problem with that setup every object has a specific ID set and flag that determines what the character can do with interaction so you could climb up it easily...but run around it like a boundary? Nah not going to happen. And pointers....yeah pointers to the script data all these rooms are done with scripted data, that's how events trigger, enemies appear, where a door sends the player when the click it etc. For further clarification since you think I don't know what i'm talking about....search on Youtube for Martin Biohazard he's a friend i've helped out on his project, and also look for Team 96 and Resident Evil: Distant Memories...hate to say it but I know more about how these engines work than you do...no bullshit.
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Post by 80t on Feb 1, 2015 23:05:40 GMT 10
Well, it seems that you're quite familiar with these things. Now... You're saying that the r112's 54K+ mesh doesn't actually show in-game... When I'm looking inside extracted folder "\nativePC\arc\room\st01\r112\model\bo\r112" I see a bunch of textures meant to be applied to that particular mesh... the ones I see applied in that screenshot... While looking inside extracted folder "\nativePC\arc\scr\st01\r112", from r11200 to r11207 I only see small files with extension .3ADA2F17 (probably pointers to the actual 3D remade room) and few small (few Kb) .mod file/s and... I don't see any 2D backgrounds like in other rooms in "\nativePC\arc\scr" folder... Every 2D room in that folder has the 2D backgrounds... While every 3D room has only those small files and the .mod files (3D rooms) are located in "\nativePC\arc\room" folder/s... Also I do believe (hence why I've asked in prev. post) that every room 2D room or 3D room has the mandatory collision data "model"... yes, the one you posted in the above picture... and it doesn't have 54K+ polys from what I can tell... Yes I see cameras, yes I see ligts and yes, I understand how that "model" it's only used for shadow mapping... What I want to say it's that every 3D room it's "defined" in the folder which contains the 2D rooms... (the small weird extensions files I believe... ) So every 2d Room in that folder contains either the 2D room itself... either "it points" to the 3D room in the "\nativePC\arc\room" folder... Makes any sense... ?
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Post by CodeMan02Fr on Feb 2, 2015 4:10:23 GMT 10
so first calm down both of you
i will explain : the 54k+ obj file level i uploaded IS the room in real 3D the game actually use,with applied textures. some of the room's capcom have redone in real 3d. also thoses rooms are splitted in multiple mod files (i loaded them all at once for export) to fit the camera angles and decrease the gpu impact. it is mod files not sbc collision data, i can export both if you need comparison
this mean one thing : all rooms can be ported to 3d but will require 3d remodeling, generation of material files and mod files,scripts and collision data.
after all the game engine is the same engine as re5,re6 and re:rev.
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Post by 80t on Feb 2, 2015 4:23:46 GMT 10
Thanks for clarification. I only wanted to be sure (with confirmation) that it can be done. You pretty much answered my questions. Favorable I might add.
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Post by CodeMan02Fr on Feb 2, 2015 5:35:23 GMT 10
script that load the rooms geometry mod files are sdl file in : nativePC\arc\room\st01\scheduler\bo\
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Post by dxp on Feb 2, 2015 5:52:38 GMT 10
so first calm down both of you
i will explain : the 54k+ obj file level i uploaded IS the room in real 3D the game actually use,with applied textures. some of the room's capcom have redone in real 3d. also thoses rooms are splitted in multiple mod files (i loaded them all at once for export) to fit the camera angles and decrease the gpu impact. it is mod files not sbc collision data, i can export both if you need comparison
this mean one thing : all rooms can be ported to 3d but will require 3d remodeling, generation of material files and mod files,scripts and collision data.
after all the game engine is the same engine as re5,re6 and re:rev.
And with that...the whole thing that made remake a classic game gets raped by the re 4,5,6 and rev community nothing can be sacred -_-
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Post by 80t on Feb 2, 2015 5:55:03 GMT 10
The Graveyard seems to be a hybrid room... ? Both 3D and 2D BG's... ? I see models of 3D gravestones, a wall, some vegetation and a door... and 2D BG's... EDIT: so first calm down both of you
i will explain : the 54k+ obj file level i uploaded IS the room in real 3D the game actually use,with applied textures. some of the room's capcom have redone in real 3d. also thoses rooms are splitted in multiple mod files (i loaded them all at once for export) to fit the camera angles and decrease the gpu impact. it is mod files not sbc collision data, i can export both if you need comparison
this mean one thing : all rooms can be ported to 3d but will require 3d remodeling, generation of material files and mod files,scripts and collision data.
after all the game engine is the same engine as re5,re6 and re:rev.
And with that...the whole thing that made remake a classic game gets raped by the re 4,5,6 and rev community nothing can be sacred -_- What do you mean... ?
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Post by CodeMan02Fr on Feb 2, 2015 6:21:08 GMT 10
i think dxp mean he likes jill too
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Post by 80t on Feb 2, 2015 6:27:20 GMT 10
i think dxp mean he likes jill too Ahh... Now I see... I was blind...
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Post by bllizard on Feb 2, 2015 18:56:50 GMT 10
I was thinking of using models and scenery from umbrella chronicles, that way not all textures end up needing to be recreated. They could be enhanced if necessary, Which is probably a more easyer job to do since it's dimensions are already laid out.
I was also thinking that this game may end up being a little shorter to complete in full 3d. So I was thinking to counter this to find some of the rooms that are locked indefinitely in the mansion (for what ever reasons) and make additional key searching quests with new scripts unlocking fresh new creative level layouts.....a swimming pool with some puzzles maybe, or a room with extra zombies and fresh weapons, unlocking Something like a zombie eats zombie dart gun.
Some creative ideas, This game would be totally sick with them!
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Post by knots on Feb 2, 2015 20:40:33 GMT 10
Does Umbrella Chronicles even have the entire mansion in it? I've never played it, but I remember it looking pretty low poly in gameplay vids. Even if it did have the complete mansion, it'd probably look pretty bad compared to what we have now. If someone is going to go through all the trouble of redoing the whole game in 3D, it seems as though they may as well just re-model everything. Honestly, sprucing up the backdrops in photoshop might not be as daunting as people are making it out to be. How many camera angles does REmaster have, again? Is there an easy way to extract them all or a dump someplace I can download? I'm also pretty curious as to how much of the lighting is baked into the backdrops and how much of it is "real". I was surprised by the results of removing shaders.
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Post by bllizard on Feb 3, 2015 5:42:58 GMT 10
Does Umbrella Chronicles even have the entire mansion in it? I've never played it not sure, but it's got plenty rooms already created. And it also has RE zero in it as well. If someone is going to go through all the trouble of redoing the whole game in 3D, it seems as though they may as well just re-model everything. Heh, easy for you to say. RE remake may be completed under 3 hrs but not the level creating. The Re2 remake has been on and off development for 2 years now. The remake for the original game is more than just the mansion, you have the out door backyard leading to the guard house, and then that sits on top of the under water research facility. Then you have all of the underground mining area to do, where you meet with Enrico. (Which should be in umbrella chronicles) And then now on to the mansion, it has a library, a kitchen, guest rooms, an underground sewer and garbage disposal facility that leads to the kitchen. And then you have the laboratory that the mansion sits on, and all of its areas to do. (Which should also be in umbrella chronicles.) The year that capcom's team took to make the estate will end up being undertaken. If you're a capable enough artist to recreate just 5 rooms of the mansion, that would be insane and immensely appreciated. Though It's better to take what capcom already did, at least you'll be able to polish it or add more geometry, and then release testing much sooner.
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Post by dxp on Feb 3, 2015 7:15:21 GMT 10
I was thinking of using models and scenery from umbrella chronicles, that way not all textures end up needing to be recreated. They could be enhanced if necessary, Which is probably a more easyer job to do since it's dimensions are already laid out. I was also thinking that this game may end up being a little shorter to complete in full 3d. So I was thinking to counter this to find some of the rooms that are locked indefinitely in the mansion (for what ever reasons) and make additional key searching quests with new scripts unlocking fresh new creative level layouts.....a swimming pool with some puzzles maybe, or a room with extra zombies and fresh weapons, unlocking Something like a zombie eats zombie dart gun. Some creative ideas, This game would be totally sick with them! Well good luck with that then.... No it doesn't. Render wise.....think its something like... 1000+? Only going off older games but that is roughly the amount of angles for all rooms.
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